Team Proposal : Don't hire designers

Hi,
I’m brand new on this forum but a large sushi holder since october.

I’m desperate like many others that you aren’t making any advancement in the UI/UX.

It’s why I’m proposing you : don’t hire new designers, I saw many of them with new proposals, until your version has been fixed.

Have you even trying your product ?! Have you even trying on mobile version ?!
Do you think it’s professional to put online an ugly version who doesn’t work at all and who are not fit for new users?

It’s a shame, a small summary :

  1. News on sushiswap.fi , nothing happen after clicking
  2. Search button, nothing happen
  3. More button, nothing happen
  4. After selecting the pair SUSHI-ETH, nothing happen after clicking on SUSHI/ETH, and it’s too close of 1W
  5. The content of the page overflows on the right on each page
  6. Nothing is explained for beginners, even if he is in this space since few years, how can he know what is allocPoint ? What Onsen means? How can he know if he starts staking, he has to wait 6 month to have 100% of theses rewards?
  7. Top Movers and Top Earners, why are you using a big white block with nothing in background ? You lose place.
  8. In general, the mobile version and the desktop version is really ugly.

It’s my true opinion, shared by a majority of #CT .

My proposal is simple : Don’t hire new designers, if they really did this work, it’s a bad work, and no one feel really confident using sushiswap.fi.

I know, you will be against me, it’s your forum, and you are a team.
But please, go outside and talk on twitter with users, and don’t stay on your forum or you discord. Take a poll on Twitter.

The majority who love this UI are, sorry to say, sushi groupies. It’s time to ask professional and new users… if you want to go mainstream.

I pray you will improve sushiswap .fi .

Please, don’t kill Bentobox with a bad UI.

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yeah i agree with this. Yearn’s new UI looks very nice so i was really excited for the Sushiswap updates… but i was pretty disappointed. looks really basic and tacky… i wouldnt mind it at all if it had a dark mode or different theme options…

other than that UI is buggy, half of the links don’t work. for instance clicking on pairs in your portfolio will MAYBE bring you to the pair overview page if you are lucky… the original UI was way better but, whatever. i do love SUSHI though

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https://sushiswap.fi/experimental/beginner

this looks SO much better

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I just took a quick look at https://sushiswap.fi/ and I think it could feel cluttered. I personally prefer a light/bright screen display for my dApps to make it seem minimalistic but it may not be delivering the results that I am hoping for.

I think the direction Sushi is taking with the main page feels a little similar to how Yahoo was back in the days when Google wasn’t a thing. They were overly ambitious and tried to capture too many things at one go. We all knew how that turned out.

I wasn’t expecting to see a news section on the page but I suppose Sushi needs to find a way to keep the community informed?

Now the proposal is about not hiring designers so I’ll stick to the theme here. I think it would be a good idea to collect more feedback from the community on how we can better make things work. Design is not a one and done thing. Improvements are possible so why not give designers the opportunity to do better?

There may be a misalignment in expectation here so let’s have a conversation about it. Would love to hear more thoughts about this.

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Thanks you for your comment. It’s good to hear opinions like this to create a better platform. I’m sure the core team will hear you and there’s plenty of comments like this, so you’re not alone. UX/UI should def be a top priority. Improvements will happen gradually and the team works constantly everyday, even 24/7. Better to ship something, get feedback and then improve with the community, rather than dev in the shadows, which I see sushi plays very well. e.g.: shipped new ui, hasu made almost same comment as you, omakase ships improvements moments later. Sushi sees and hears all. :slight_smile:

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was actually surprised by this too. think there just needs to be a separate community website that will host all the news and updates, etc. Don’t really see a need on sushiswap, since the main goal of the normal everyday user is either to farm, swap, or stake (and soon borrow/lend*), not really know what’s up with sushi community.

I picture it like this: sushiswap attracts new users w/ amazing defi products → new user develops into a community member → new community member visits actual sushi community website and dives deep → then joins discord, makes a sushi twitter, starts praising sushi from top of their lungs, participating in governance and forum.

(or maybe just slap one of those tiny scrolling newsfeed bars on the top page or something. lol)

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In what world is your proposal ‘easy’?

Just hire designers, yes, that always works. What you don’t realize is that there is an onboarding process, then an iterative design process that involves the designer learning the branding, coloring guidelines, and brand aesthetics.

Your voice counts, it’s just a bad voice.

People who have never done software engineering at a professional level do not need to be lecturing others on how to deliver product.

Stop being a clown.

lol i double the yahoo comparison

when people come online people would like to see the news and top movers.

liquidity/volume are stats people like to see but they don’t need to take up the ENTIRE top of the page, just seems like bragging and so tacky in that sense… when people come to sushi - and i recommend it to tons of folks - they should see news and top movers, Onsen, and the swap all nicely in a row so they understand what can be done on the platform.

otherwise from impressions of folks i get - and… i understand defi is very hi IQ - is that it just seems confusing and unorganized. the eye is drawn to liqudity and volume, but how does that translate to the user that SUSHI will benefit them? for most newcomers they won’t understand. they want to see features, the interface should draw people into action and wanting to get started right away.

i guess yeah this post is kinda silly and constructive criticism should prob go elsewhere. but like now its in my notifics so yeah.

Hi Everyone,

Happy to work through the feedback. Unfortunately the reason the UI was released before scheduled was last minute updates by Metamask regarding web3 that broke lots of legacy functionality. As we’ve always said this new UI update is effectively a soft launch to work through outstanding bugs, touch up features, etc.

Please note, mobile is definitely a work in progress and not meant to be functional at the moment. You are free to use exchange.sushiswap.fi for your mobile trading needs in the meantime.

Open to any suggestions to the Overview and other pages. But I would ask that any recommendations would be followed with some sort of simple sketch or design. I hear a lot of feedback often that the Overview page is cluttered or “yahoo-esque” but I see very few viable alternatives presented. I think @Hasufl did a good job in presenting constructive feedback on Twitter and I implemented his suggested changes within a day. The Overview page will always be a balance between “swap-maxis” (people who only want swap swap swap), beginners, and people who want everything (I want to see all the stats!). Hopefully we can discuss more on how to reach that balance for everyone and all cohorts.

Also I would refrain from overexaggeration, its just not conducive to solving the problem and actually impacting change. You can constructively present alternatives without making it seem like sushiswap personally offended you. As I’ve mentioned the current UI is very biased towards users in our first cohort (larger LPs - wants access to all farms fast, wants all information at once), users in more recent cohorts might have different expectations and we should definitely find ways to compromise constructively.

What I have little patience to tolerate is “this is bad, but I also have no ideas on how to improve it so I’ll just keep saying its bad”. Core team is here to implement based on feedback and I keep my ear near the ground for such matters - give me a better version and it’ll get done!

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Thanks for your feedback. You’re verging off topic which makes me suspect whether anything constructive will come out of this topic to effectively improve the UI, which I hope was your goal with this forum post.

To address your concerns inline:

  1. You don’t like the design. Noted. Feel free to present alternatives or designs that “you will like” and we’re more than happy to implement, test, iterate, rinse and repeat. I’d recommend hasful on twitter as a good example on how this works constructively.

  2. The team is here. “Only on discord and twitter” I can give you an email as well if you would like?

  3. Fake DAO. Well there will be debates about this, but most governance in the beginning is a plutocracy. This is common across all large governance tokens especially yield farming tokens (since large farmers will chase the best initial yields and generate outsized rewards). Quite frankly the sushi distribution across addresses does lean towards large holders but not significantly. Small holders comprise of roughly 25% of addresses, medium 30%, large 45%. There are many ways to normalize this in the long term and I hope you have some constructive ideas on how to do so. “Only having it my way” is not governance either.

  4. Agreed! BentoBox has not been delivered and we have not paid for it - not sure where you have been informed that we have. We continue to work to improve Bentobox in the meantime with 100% test coverage and formal verification since since with smart contracts you only get to deploy once. Additionally Bentobox’s original grant proposal was locked in at a much lower sushi price, it would be irresponsible for us to renege on this price simply since the price of sushi went up. In fact sushi grants are what keep incentives aligned to ensure the best work and dedication long term. I don’t think anyone is unfamiliar with the nightmares of fixed price contracts.

  5. Joseph Delong was selected as CTO. He was formerly a ethereum core dev and has a public profile you are welcome to google and vet for yourself. We welcomed him to add key industry knowledge and relationships to better align Sushi with long term strategic objectives. His profile was also shared with the community and posted on snapshot as we moved to expand the team. The community also secured his position through a vote on snapshot. There may be disagreements with this, but in my opinion sushi core team reserves the right to organize and propose hiring decisions that are then validated through a community vote.

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I think I was pretty clear when I said exaggeration doesn’t constructively solve any problems. I hear lots of accusations, but few solutions. I am usually quite open to working directly with community members to solve any issues - however if you insist on being abusive then unfortunately I cannot help you.

To address your concerns inline once again.

  1. I hear a lot about “design style”, but I’m really struggling to understand what design style you are proposing or suggesting. The current design style is as minimalistic as possible so the designers can have a flexible pass through in polishing subsequent iterations. Release first and test, iterate. If you can communicate your implied design style better then I’m happy to implement. Hasful’s feedback was more oriented towards UX as opposed to design style and yes modifying the disposition of elements matter to some people! As I mentioned, our interaction on twitter should how a community project works: people give ideas, core devs implement those ideas. So far I have not heard any ideas from all your paragraphs. Additionally I think I have sufficiently explained where we are working through the bugs and evaluating the general UX/UI and have maintained a professional decorum in our discussions.

  2. I apologize if I come off as ironic or arrogant and forum members can be the judge of whether I come off this way in our discussion. Quite frankly, I think a lot of measured restraint and grace has been shown and encourage you to read into the substance of my messages.

  3. I dont see how this metric of how many people vote vs how many people have sushi quantifies the “realism” of a DAO. In the United States and most developed democracies voter turnout is consistently below 30% - are these fake democracies? As I mentioned, if you have any ideas on how to a) redistribute rewards to favor addresses with lower amounts of sushi or b) motivate smaller sushi holders to vote then I welcome this discussion. So far the discussion has not been solution oriented, rather just repeating Fake Dao with no substance.

  4. I think you misinterpreted the 75k in the snapshot. “Rest of the grant for Bentobox” implies this amount will be distributed once Bentobox is completed. Bentobox has not been completed, so the grant has not been issued. Additionally our operational as well as treasury wallets are publicly viewable - you can clearly see no 75k sushi has been distributed yet or set to be distributed in the timelock.

  5. I think we are incredibly transparent and quite frankly just because you are not informed does not imply any opaqueness from the team. Joseph Delong has been driving the L2 implementation of sushiswap. This is well known in the community. Arguably this is an important, if not the most important topic for this year. Additionally there is no requirement for individuals to post an individual application on the forum - as I’ve said core team reserves the right to make hiring decision to then be approved through a community vote. Additionally I believe Joseph has participated in many SushiSwap AMAs to give insight into his background, thoughts and plans. As I’ve said, the lack of your participation does not imply opaqueness or “lies” as you claim. I think you are confusing transparency with “I was personally informed about this”.

  6. I find myself repeating topics in this thread as opposed to having an academic discussion about them. As mentioned, governance is a plutocracy in the beginning. As time goes on I’m happy to hear your thoughts as to how we expand governance and or motivate users. Ultimately some users are more interested in yield farming than actual governance and thats just the fact of the matter. I think your assumptions as why people don’t vote lacks a lot of nuance. As mentioned again, there are enough votes from small and medium sushi holders to be competitive against large holders. Additionally the team does not vote and we do not use the operations wallet or treasury wallet for voting initiatives. These are all clearly shown and recorded. At the end of the day you might have some deep seated oppositions against whales but ultimately whales are just another cohort that we must serve and cater to, just as we do to small and medium holders.

Quite frankly I’m really not sure who has offended your sensibilities to behave in such a manner of speaking and can only attempt to apologize on their behalf.

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Allow me to weight in on the matter.

Can’t say much about the UI, but I can’t help myself but agree with @0x001 on Joe’s hiring process. And Keno’s and I’m Software’s. There was no discussion on the forum, Maki simply put one big proposal onto Snapshot and let it run.

It also looks like the votes on Snapshot to hire people go pretty much uncontested, so I think that the community should’ve been able to at least comment on the topic.

Unfortunately, what @OmakaseBar is saying about the governance is completely correct and currently no viable solution exists to address this.

I’ve worked on SIMP#3 for quite a while, have done a lot of research on the matter and seeing that it was decided by pretty much one single person makes me feel like all that work was for nothing.

Just my 2 cents

Quite frankly I think there was ample time to discuss with a joint proposal, nothing was rushed into snapshot and quite frankly it was delayed for a bit. None of the applicants were unknown to the community, many had already been working on existing projects for some time and this is why there was no contention if not interest. Additionally, the main point of this thread was to discuss the lackluster quality of the UI which is directly correlated with the number of team members or lack thereof. On one hand you want things to be better but on the other hand you don’t want new team members to consolidate into more professional organization. This seems like a contradictory stance and thats why I don’t view this thread as constructive since its so off base from the original topic.

Would you mind linking me to the forum post that mentions Joseph? I can’t seem to find it

As I mentioned Joseph did not have a forum post, nor was required to have one, I do remember his profile being mentioned in more than one medium before ending up on the snapshot whether on discord, in the team meeting, in ama, etc. Additionally he was non-anon, I think forum discussions are usually to validate contributors who might not necessarily be known and verified. Happy to discuss further as to what people think the process should be but ultimately my thoughts are that in the future there will be no snap personal forum proposals. There will be a request for proposal issued by the core team for an open position that can also include a recommendation. Once this request period is completed, a profile is placed on snapshot to pass or not pass.

Citing from the V4 of the hiring guidelines:

Any volunteer willing to commit to the project full-time and long-term is welcome to submit a proposal on forum.sushiswapclassic.org , detailing their skills and desired scope of action.

:white_check_mark: The process detailed below assumes that proposals are non-contentious and all voting and conversation is done in good faith. Any attempt to tamper with the voting results will be sanctioned by the dismissal of the proposal.

If a proposal is welcomed positively after at least four days of feedback and fits SushiSwap’s current needs, a vote is pushed to Snapshot.

I think that we can all agree that people posting proposals on the forum has become the norm and that it’s the best way to discuss the topic.

I, personally, have seen Joe for the first time on the team call, haven’t read about him in any AMAs / Medium articles, might just be misremembering though.

I don’t see why you’re citing these or where we are disagreeing.

medium lowercase, methods of communication

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I was reacting to this, might have misunderstood. Does this mean that there will be no forum post at all or that there won’t be a post made by the applicant personally?

While it’s true that he wasn’t required to have a forum post, I definitely think that he should’ve, and that what Maki has done broke the norm.